Convert your car to CNG! Start the auto CNG market in NW LA NOW!

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Permalink Reply by LP on January 1, 2009 at 6:28am

Guess this investor has not been following the proposals and political push of the Pickens Plan. Strength continues to be in numbers. The fast track way to resolve CNG issues is joining forces in large "voting" numbers and the necessary machinery is already set up in the Pickens Plan.

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Permalink Reply by intrepid on January 1, 2009 at 9:49am

You are absolutely correct about strength in numbers. But, the way I see it, whatever it takes to get everyone on board! No shaler left behind sorta thing.

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Permalink Reply by intrepid on January 1, 2009 at 9:47am

This is a great idea! Let's all make it a priority in 2009 to make CNG the primary transportation fuel in America!

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Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on January 1, 2009 at 11:39am

Some thought will need to go into the type of auto that can be converted. One for a diesel would be a bit different than that for gasoline engine. The diesel fuel itself helps lubricate the engine so going to straight NG would not work without modifications to the lubricating system. NG can be injected along with the diesel fuel like a nitrous rig on a race car thus mixing the two fuels together. From what I have read this settup boosts HP and fuel economy by a great degree and it gets past the problem of so few NG refueling stations on the road because you don't have to use the NG. I same type settup would work for gasoline engines as well. NG has a higher octane rating than gasoline so a engine with a higher compression ratio would be better suited for a conversion. These higher compression gasoline engines are the ones that require you to use premium fuel.

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Permalink Reply by The ShaleRider on January 1, 2009 at 11:16pm

Thanks 2dogs.

Yes, I understand that CNG will mix with diesel and very noticably raise the fuel/ "gas" mileage.

Please see link below where CNG conversion kits are available from Canada for the following different engines and are available both in 3000 and 3600 psi kits.

CNG Sequential Injection Conversion System for 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 Cylinder Gasoline Engines
Available for Engines up to 400HP
Single Fuel and Dual Fuel

http://www.fuelko.com/products.html

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Permalink Reply by The ShaleRider on January 5, 2009 at 4:43pm

Here are additional highlights from the other posting, re: most of this research was done in October, with some updates in early December.

Reply by The ShaleRider on October 3, 2008 at 12:36pm

Here's 1 example of a company that adds NG to a gasoline vehicle. They are in Utah.

These prices seem to follow the principles that there's hardly any competition yet…

Kit Prices

* 4 Cyl. Engine Complete CNG Kit - $1450.00
* 5 Cyl. Engine Complete CNG Kit - $1550.00
* 6 Cyl. Engine Complete CNG Kit - $1650.00
* 8 Cyl. Engine Complete CNG Kit - $1900.00
* 10 Cyl. Engine Complete CNG Kit - $2500.00

Tank/Cylinder Prices

* Car - 15.2" x 35.4" - 6.7 gallon, 66 lbs - $2200.00 + Shipping
* SUV - 16.1" x 52" - 11.4 gallon 121 lbs * - $2780.00 + Shipping
* Truck - 15.9" x 60" - 13.6 gallon 121 lbs * - $2980.00 + Shipping

Basic Install is $1500, due at install time. (may be more depending on vehicle).

(The price for Installation seems pretty high too...since the guy with the mercedes says it should take 1 day. I'm really not accustomed to paying a mechanic $187.50-$200/hour for their 8-hr day.)

Update Jan 3, 2009: In early Dec, I re-visited this site and they had a 20-25% discount on the above CNG tank prices. So, you might be able to negotiate these prices.
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Reply by The ShaleRider on October 3, 2008 at 4:16pm

PHILL PHACTS

Information on the Phil verified by calling Sullivan Oil Co in Baton Rouge on Oct 2, 2008 --phone 225.952.7900
Sullivan Oil
Willie Wells
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
70816
Tel: 225-952-7900
Email: wwells@sullivan-br.com

Cost of the Phil = $4500
Cost of Installation = $1000-$1500

They have 1 technician certified for installation. Price may be negotiable if we have group of customers collected for several installations at one time, since the technician would have to drive to Shreveport and stay overnight. I am assuming that this is included in the cost quoted above.

The PHIL operates at 3600PSI only. This can only be used for 2005 cars and later. Installation requires a routing of your home natural gas line to the side of the garage wall close to your car's fill site and installation of 240volt electrical supply. At 800 watts, Phill uses less electricity than most small kitchen appliances.

The PHIL fills @1/2 gal/hr. (Kindof like watching grass grow). In this case, I would think one would want the Phil attached to the car any time you're not driving it. I saw 6.7 gal CNG tanks for sale for regular passenger cars. This tank would take 13 hrs to fill completely with the PHIL.

The federal tax credit is currently $1000. Legislation is already proposed to raise it to $2000. The state tax credit is 20% of the cost=> based on the cost above including installation would be $1100-$1200. So total state and federal tax credit would be ~$2000. This offsets the cost of the PHIL to a total of ~$3900.
From Fox Service located in Austin and their source is from International Association for Natural Gas Vehicles:
What is the Remanufactured Phill Program?
Existing Phill owners can purchase a remanufactured Phill when the life of their original unit comes to an end. This remanufactured Phill will perform to the specifications of a new unit and will last for another 5 years or 6,000 hours of operation.

Compressed natural gas (CNG) cylinders are tested in the most extreme conditions, even having bullets fired at them, before they receive standards approval.

ShaleRider Reporting

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Contents of link from Consumer Reports in 2006 (some already well-known points edited out)

I also completely removed the part where they said that a CNG tank was bigger than gasoline and then said that the miles per CNG was much less. This is just wrong. If one has the same area of CNG tanks as gasoline, then there is not much difference in the mileage…maybe none. The problem is that the discussion is mainly for a Honda Civic…which last time I looked was not rated even a family sedan.  Additionally, the CNG tank is usually installed in the trunk of cars. The Honda Civic trunk is not very big to start with. Maybe Honda is only putting one 6.7 CNG gal tank in the Civic. But this tank is a tube 15 inches in diameter and 35 inches long (think of the shape of the wiener)…NOT bigger than the gasoline tank which is usually a rectangle ≥4 inches thick, would go under the car, and hold 12-15 gallons of gasoline.

http://www.myphill.com/files/ConsumerReportOct06.pdf
OVERVIEW

Like other alternatives, CNG has its advantages and disadvantages.
Compared with gasoline, it has much cleaner emissions while providing similar
fuel economy, performance, and driveability. Its relative energy cost can be
about half that of gasoline when using a home-fueling station. And it’s mostly a
domestically produced energy source; 85 percent of the CNG consumed in the
U.S. is also produced here. On the other hand, the Civic GX is priced almost
$7,000 higher than a similar gasoline-powered version, refueling stations are
relatively rare, and CNG is not available at all--even for home fueling--in some
areas.
Natural gas has been used as a motor vehicle fuel since the 1930s. In fact,
Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors once offered passenger vehicles fueled by
CNG, sold primarily to fleets. Today one out of every five new buses uses
CNG.
California and New York have an infrastructure in place to deliver natural gas,
but some areas have very limited access to the fuel. Since CNG is generally
transported by pipeline, rather than by truck or rail, the distribution infrastructure
plays a key role in the fuel’s availability.

A study of New York City taxis running on natural gas concluded that
maintenance costs were also reduced compared to gasoline.

The driving experience. Drivers are not expected to notice a
significant difference in performance between a CNGpowered
vehicle and one fueled by gasoline. Acceleration is
comparable, and the car starts and drives normally. Gas mileage is
about the same. As a bonus, in some states, drivers of CNG
vehicles can use the HOV lane.

Air quality. CNG is much cleaner-burning than gasoline. According to
the Environmental Protection Agency, CNG can reduce carbonmonoxide
emissions by 90 to 97 percent and nitrogen-oxide emissions
by 35 to 60 percent when compared with gasoline. CNG can also
potentially reduce non-methane hydrocarbon emissions by 50 to 75
percent, while producing fewer carcinogenic pollutants and little or no
particulate matter. When the 1998 Civic GX was introduced, the EPA
cited it as having the cleanest internal combustion engine ever tested.

Tax and other incentives. The federal government offers a tax credit
to buyers of CNG-powered vehicles. That credit is $4,000 for buyers of
the Civic GX. States may offer additional credits for both the vehicle
and a home-fueling device. Some California residents have been
offered a $2,000 credit toward the $3,400 cost of a Phill unit by the
South Coast Air Quality Management District and the Mobile Source Air
Pollution Reduction Review Committee.

If you choose to fill up with Phill. An advantage of refueling stations
over the Phill home unit is that the gas is already pressurized, so the
tank can be filled in a matter of minutes. Home gas is under very low
pressure. The Phill device acts as both a pump and a compressor,
which is why it takes overnight to fill the tank. But refueling at home at
half the cost of going to a refueling station can be worth the wait. Of
course, it would take time for the payback of the initial unit cost and
installation. Also, installation is likely to require a building permit.


Safety. The Department of Energy says vehicles powered by natural
gas are as safe as conventional gasoline or diesel vehicles, and their
pressurized tanks have been designed to withstand severe impact,
temperature, and environmental exposure. CNG is lighter than air, so if
fuel were to escape in a crash, it would evaporate rather than create a
puddle under the car. While the gas is escaping the storage tank, it is
highly volatile. But once the gas has evaporated, the fire danger is
diminished. In contrast, a gasoline spill remains a danger until the
pooled liquid is removed.

As for the potentially scary business of home refueling, Phill’s
manufacturer, the FuelMaker Corp. of Toronto, dispels those fears with
these facts: that the unit will not operate if it is not connected properly and
that a built-in sensor shuts it down if the system senses a methane leak
or any other kind of malfunction. The manufacturer also says the device
is considered a home appliance by municipalities, like a hot-water heater
or gas dryer.
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Reply by The ShaleRider on October 3, 2008 at 12:07pm

Found in chat room on CNGoutfitters URL provided by Grice-----thanks Grice!

Message by Tedd
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: Converted 1994 Mercedes C220 SUCCESSFUL!

I finished converting my mercedes C220 just last week. It took about 3-4 days but I was only working a few hours a day so you could do it even in a day. I already have 900 miles on CNG! I get the same gas mileage +/- 1-2MPG as with gas. I still can't calculate it absolutely right because the fill up always depends on the pressure at the station. I have 9GGE at 3000PSI and my range is about 215 city / 265 highway. Costs me $5.8 to fill up from empty to full and go 215+ miles.

Here is some info:
The car is a 4 cylinder 2.2 liter 150HP Electronic fuel injected. I will post a video and some pictures with some more info as soon as possible. The kit was absolutely complete ! I only had to buy one high pressure fitting to connect the high pressure line to the tanks. The tanks I bought used and they are good trough 2015, they are 32x16 inches each and are rated at 3600PSI but don't forget the system is only rated at 3000 PSI! and they have electronic solenoid valves.

Here is what I got with the kit:High pressure line, Pressure regulator, Inner fill valve, shut off valve, mixer, all the hoses and brackets, timing advance processor, injector emulator, anticontaminating device with electric motor, pressure gauge, switch with LED display of the fuel level and some other things.

I will later explain more about all these things and how to install them. Also about the backfiring which usually occures and how to avoid it.

Ted>1994 Mercedes C220 CNG

Slideshow showing pictures of the conversion in his Mercedes.

http://picasaweb.google.com/cngconversion/1994MercedesC220CNG#slide...


For Jan 5, 2009---ShaleRider researching and reporting...

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Permalink Reply by The ShaleRider on January 6, 2009 at 6:22pm

News Blitz!

In mid-October, T. Boone pulled out of the "definitive agreement for $17 Million" to buy the company that makes the Phill.

See link for details:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS264862+15-Oct-2008+...

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Permalink Reply by The ShaleRider on January 19, 2009 at 11:55pm

The closest places from Shreveport for a conversion is Fox Services in Austin, TX 6-6 1/2 hrs away or Go Natural CNG in Tulsa, OK...also 6-6 1/2 hrs away. From both places, you would have to drive to Dallas to re-fuel in order to make it back Shreveport to your home Phill compressor.

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Permalink Reply by The ShaleRider on August 5, 2009 at 8:13am

One new step toward NG by Congress! The 1622 Bill passed just a few weeks ago with overwelming support by all of the House members. See details below:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07/hr1622-20090703.html

It's a good start. I'm still waiting on the bill that extends the incentives for buying a car with NG ... to a bifuel car that switches from gasoline to NG.

That "turtle" is slow, but seems to be making progress!

The ShaleRider

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